As we all know, the post-WWII years up until the late '80s were known as the Cold War, a period in which the world's two new superpowers, the United States and the USSR, had a rivalry that almost touched the brink of war several times. The United States absolutely hated communism, which was known as "the red scare," and even still today there is some bias in our country toward communists. Even before the war, countries like Britain, France, and the United States weren't exactly pro-communist, favoring democracy instead. Yet in the 1930s, the United States did several things in support of communist countries. For example, they came to the aid of communist China when Japan threatened to invade; China was also backed by the Soviet Union, which was obviously communist at this point. They'd even recognized the USSR diplomatically. I found this all to be odd; if the United States was undertaking a policy of isolationism at this time period, and they were anti-communist, why were they supporting these communist countries though it might mean making enemies of Japan and the communist hating fascists of Germany? And they didn't help China just a little bit - they provided military support, sent supplies to China, the whole nine yards. I got the impression that the textbook said that the United States' reason for helping out China against Japan was that it felt like Japan was overstepping its bounds in involving itself in another country's affairs, and that they were unprovoked, so they had no right to go after China. This then leads me to believe that the United States was using the excuse that they were aiding China because it was the right thing to do. But that still doesn't explain why they were in league with the USSR.
The US has been known to be hypocritical when it comes to communism - for example, how we'll trade with communist China, but we won't trade with Cuba because they're communist. Could it be that this hypocrisy goes all the way back to the 1930s? Did we maybe see potential in China as a trading partner, so that's why we helped them out? Did they just hate fascism so much maybe that they were willing to ally themselves with the USSR? I personally think it's very likely that there were underlying motives to the US support of communist countries in the '30s, especially taking into consideration the fact that the US was supposed to have adopted policies of isolationism. What are your thoughts on what those alterior motives might be? And what else do you think about this?
Another question....how did the rivalry between two former allies, the US and the USSR, develop into such a strong one? There's the splitting up of Germany to consider, how one wanted to use the fall of Germany to spread communism there and one was trying to prevent communism there, thus creating the split with the Berlin Wall. There was the preconcieved ill-will toward communism; there was the fact that both had emerged from WWII as a superpower, creating what would be a natural rivalry. There was also the fact that communism had already spread to China, the USSR, and even part of Germany by the end of the war, and threatened to emerge in other places, like Korea, Cuba, and third-world countries in Africa, so naturally the US would try to prevent this. Those are some ideas I had. But what is everyone else's thoughts on this?
Ok, firstly I am confused by your statement "And they didn't help China just a little bit"?? The United States aided China in big ways, supplies, finances, military support; you listed these yourself. So I am curious as to why you said this?
ReplyDeleteTo answer your first question, I think it came down to benefits. China is a vast country with so many opportunities and resources. With them being under attack from Japan, it was easy for the US to swoop in and aid them; with the hope of something in return. I think with the US coming out of the first world war in a sticky situation led us to look for opportunities to spur things in the right direction.
And I think you answered your second question yourself. The fact that the USSR had fallen to communism put a huge rift between them and the US. Communism is something that all throughout history that has always tried to be prevented. It is only natural for the US, the epitome of democracy, to be angered by their fall to it.
Lauren- I think she means that the US went farther than helping out China just a "little bit", that in fact they provided immense relief efforts.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think I can help a bit on the last question. The US and the USSR were indeed allies on paper during WWII. Truman admired Stalin a great deal, and thought they could work together. It was the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan that severed these ties. With the United States' brash display of power against the Soviet Union (indirectly), the USSR began its own buildup of arms, and tensions escalated into the Cold War.
I agree with what you said about the US maybe seeing the benefits they could get from China in the fututre. I think the US did see a lot of potential ways thet China could prove helpful and they wanted to protect that. Also, I feel like meybe we thought that in helping them we could prevent the spread of communism. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me it could be similar towhat we're doing now in the middle east- fighting to bring democracy, while also trying to protect our own interests.
ReplyDeleteI think Katie has a good point. The US is always looking toward the future and picking out all the potential down falls and prosperous options. So by considering China as a way to prevent the spread of communism, we wanted them on our good side.
ReplyDelete(Ignoring the Middle East comment because it does not directly relate, but still hopes it is brought up in class) I feel that the US never has been honest when it comes to the world. The US almost always does something when it has a way of benefiting the US. Take for instance WWI where the US wanted to make sure it could get all the depts. from the Allies back. In the case of China I think it was a way of making the US the sole big ally of China. Almost all countries saw that China had a lot of resources when the countries first divided it up after the Qing. After WWI the US saw a time to get a greater share of the China and took it. If that meant allying a commy when so be it.
ReplyDelete@AJ, I agree with you that the United States tends to participate only when there is opportunity for growth/ they get something out of it. The U.S. traded with both Japan and China, benefitting from both sources. It could not directly support China, but at the same time built up its Navy and air forces in preparation for such events. The reason Japan fought with China was because of the amount of resources that China hosted agriculturally and her convenient location with a large coastline. Who wouldn't have wanted resources from China? Japan definitely did. --Wasn't the attack on Pearl Harbor an effect of Japanese aggression because the United States was trading so heavily with China?
ReplyDeleteWith the USSR, I think (talking about the Cold War) that they were upset because of the millions of lives that were lost during WWII that the United States didn't lose and the United States' development and use of the Atomic Bomb.
I agree with you Maddi that the U.S. had alterior motives for helping China. The textbook said that we considered China to be friendly to us, and took offense to Japan attacking her. But it was also more than just "friendliness." I think we saw the potential for trade, looking out for future interests like Katie and Alysa said.
ReplyDeleteWhat Kaylan said about the U.S. dropping the atomic bomb was an interesting point to me. I agree that the Soviet Union took this to mean that we could overpower them, so they got defensive.
My question is a little different, it seems like China is getting caught in the middle of all this because it has all these resources that everyone wanted, okay great, but haven't we been taught since like AP World (anyone read that Guns, Germs, and Steel book?) that the countries with the most resources are the ones that become dominant? How did China fall so far behind the other nations of the time period?
ReplyDeleteHeading back on track here, I tend to agree with what everyones saying, yes the US is selfish and was constantly looking for possible trade partners and such. But I think it's easy to go to the US and say "you had alterior motives!" rather then look at what actually happened. The US did a good thing in helping China, and I think that's something that might be overlooked.
As far as the cold war is concerned, from what I've heard we'll be covering quite a bit of it in this class, and I don't know a whole lot about it right now, but I will say that I think it's very important to pay attention to this time period as those cold war tensions are growing. Rem brought up a good point with all the lives lost, one thing we have to think about during this discussion is that although the US was in The Great Depression in the 30's we were MUCH better off then some of the other nations at this time, it was like the really popular kid at school. Everyone either hated him or was trying to play nice to get some of his popularity.
In my opinion, the United States does its best to look as though it stands by its values wholeheartedly and without exception. It's sort of an area of intentional negligence- I, for one, have not thought much about our hypocrisy with Cuba and China before.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think that when it comes down to it, the ends justify the means. We are willing to make an exception for China because they have goods we want, and we were willing to make an exception for the Soviet Union because they provided the assistance we needed. Widespread knowledge about US History, however, tends to have a bit of a blind spot in that area.
Also, another reason for the USSR and US working together- they just disliked each other. At some point in the war, both countries became openly hostile towards the Axis powers- a much stronger hatred than the USSR-US relationship. And, as Winston Churchill put it, "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons." In other words, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Despite the fact that the US was opposed against Communism it would be completely foolish not to try to invest into a partnership with China. The US saw the opportunity and seized it despite the fact it was going up against its policy of anti-communism.
ReplyDeleteI think thatto a large extent, the us had motives for helping china that had noting to do with what we said. We wanted to prove to the larger worldwide community that we were going to promote democracy, and successfully, while at the same time gaining a valuable trading partner. It's also interesting to think about how LBJ, many years later (when he was making his decision about Vietnam) references "our failure in china" and how we lost respect from it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is fair to compare the way that the U.S. felt about communism before and after WWII. Before WWII communism was not hated the way it was after WWII. Also, Russia was not a superpower before WWII and posed no threat to the U.S. They also lacked the expansionist ideas of spreading Communism across the world that we see post WWII. As for the way the U.S. treated the China situation, the U.S. knew that Japan was going to be a problem and thus took action to try and deter this. Remember the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the U.S. could definitely see potential as far as trading goes in supporting China. Also the fact that Japan was closer geographically to the U.S. and could've been a potential threat if they gained too much power. While I agree with Abbey in that the US did a good thing in helping China I also think we use that a lot. The US is always the 'good guy' that helps the underdogs out, but do we do this because it's the right thing or to make us look good? I think that we may have just helped to boost China's dependency on us, giving the US more power. I agree a hundred percent with Evan as well, the US was just using the USSR to block a whole front on Germany, we shared a common enemy with them and that made us 'friends.' But even General Patton predicted problems with them later on, America still didn't trust them.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Maddi's question about why the U.S. helped Russia and China, I thought it was because, at the time, the United States didn't like Communism, but we weren't really afraid yet of its spreading. Although we didn't like communism, it still seemed kind of like a contained problem I guess, like Russia and China were running themselves into the ground (in our opinion at the time), but they weren't really taking anyone else with them yet. Also, Germany may have been communist-hating, but we were still not about to side with them. Russia was and ally during World War 1, which is something we have to consider, as well as, like you said, we felt obligated to help China because they were being, you know, "bullied" by Japan. I don't think we can ever say for sure about the ulterior motives of being allies with these communist questions, but I don't really think there was anything too malicious. Maybe the United States thought that getting involved would indebt these countries to them a little, and we were definitely interested in, saving everyone with out 'perfect' democracy. And definitely, in the case of China, there were resources to be gained.
ReplyDeleteI think the U.S. wanted to help China because they knew that they would ultimately benefit from the success of China. Yes, they weren't always huge fans of communism, but I think that they put that aside in the need of helping the greater good. Also, I find it interesting that the U.S. helped China so much, and claimed their opposition to Japan. Until mid-1941, during the U.S.'s time of "isolationism," they sold petroleum, iron, and other essentials of war to Japan (pg 244 of textbook). This seems odd to me, because they supported Japan and then China too. It seems contradictory to me.
ReplyDeleteOne error: China did not become Communist until 1949. Until that point, the entire world was essentially competing for influence in China (remember Spheres of Influence and Open Door policy). It is true that we were Allies with the Soviet Union. Regarding our hatred of communism I think you need to think of our foreign policy in two terms: short-term and long-term. In the short-term, communism was less of a threat than fascism. Long-term, defeat the fascists and militaristic dictators during the war earns influence after the war. To a large extent, I am sure we considered our alliance with China (not yet communist) as a means of establishing influence after the war and thus helping prevent the spread of communism there.
ReplyDeleteI think that even though the US said that there were being isolationists they didnt want to follow through with that. Even in WW1 they were "neutral" but they supported Britian, by investing in them and sending them supplies because in the long run it would benifit them. I think its the same idea with china. The US wanted to help China so that in the long run they could gain from the natural resources that china had to offer.
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